Line Twist

[David Clumpner]

I'm using about 70-80m of Powerpro 65lb. with mono backing.  I've re-spooled three times already this month because often when I cast, a bird's nest (knot) of line comes off the spool.  I don't remember any trouble with line twist last year, but have had problems in years prior.  Sometimes I am able to get the knots out, though that is only a temporary solution.  Eventually - or sometimes immediately - a big enough knot comes off that it's easier just to cut it out and tie on a new bimini.  But then the problems persist (and my line gets shorter).  I've tried trolling the line around (I'm in a kayak) to get some of the twist out, but to no avail.  I thought maybe the lure I was trolling - Pakula Dojo Peche - between spots might be turning, but yesterday I respooled and today I didn't troll and I still got huge knots.  I've tried spooling different ways, with the line spool facing me, facing away, turned up, down.  Also, if this matters, I'm using a Stella 8000FA.

Any ideas on where I'm getting line twist from and how to get back to fishing?


Here is what some of the knots look like when they come off the reel:

[Warwick Joyce]

David, What sort of rod and reel are you using? Are you trying to get a good distance cast or is it happening during most situations?

[Travis Heaps]

I haven't had this problem with my GT outfit but a similar thing does happen on the light estuary gear (6lb)now and then.  With that outfit it's cause by having loose loops of line on the spool, generally from casting into the wind or not maintaining steady pressure during the retrieve.  As a result when you cast the loose loops of line don't come off the spool evenly and often cause the process to fail catastrophically into a birds nest of knots (ie your photo  ).  It can be exacerbated by and even caused by having your spool overfilled also.

So i'm not sure if that's part of the problem - loose loops when casting or an overfilled reel?  Also how does the line lay on the spool, does it sit flat or is it coned to the front or back?  If it's coned to the front or back it is easier to get an overfilling problem, the curved bottom edge on the stella spools (on my model anyway) make it hard determine the "edge".

If it's purely a line twist problem then I think it has to come from what you're doing after it's on the spool rather than how you're putting it on the spool - i'm not aware of any method of putting line on that excessively twists your line, anyone else?  With 65lb braid you should be able to see the twists when it's going on if it is happening then.  So do you use a swivel anywhere in your set-up?  I'd think the Dojo Peche could be prone to twisting on the troll, a good swivel would stop this twisting going into your line.  What were you doing the day after you respooled after getting the twist with the dojo peche?

[Jon Li]

I find PE spray helps reducing / prevent this wind knot tp occur .but most of the time , an over filled spool is the main culprit .

Jon .

[Peter Morris]

Certain brands of braid are more prone to line twist than others I reckon.

The flatter braids Eg Tuffline seem trouble free IMO.

Pete

[David Clumpner]

David, What sort of rod and reel are you using? Are you trying to get a good distance cast or is it happening during most situations?

I'm using a Stella 8000FA on a Carpenter SP 78H.  I feel pretty good about my casts - maybe 30-40m.  I'm not on a boat, but from a kayak I'm casting as far as I've ever cast.

Pete, what do you mean by a "flatter" braid?

Travis, I don't think I've got any loose loops of line on my spool.  It's winding pretty tightly.  And it's definitely twist that is causing the birds nests because if I can get them undone, the line is really anxious to twist back around on itself.
However, an overfilled spool could be a problem?  I need to respool again this week so maybe I'll do it as normal, then post a picture up here and get feedback on it.  Also, I would say that my line cones towards the front.
I usually have a swivel on the end of my twisted leader, though I've recently switched to a solid ring.  I got twist with both setups.
Yesterday, with a new spool and no Dojo Peche trolling, I only was popping.  Just using a Sea Frog and an Anthias and I'm pretty sure those lures weren't spinning as I was retrieving them.  After cutting out the first knot, I let the line loose and trolled it (without a leader) for 15 minutes, then tied on a new bimini to the twisted leader.  10 minutes later I had another huge knot, so I went into a beach to relieve some stress and tie on a new bimini.  That one actually lasted awhile, but I only had 30m of braid left on my spool and I was getting into mono on each cast.

[Peter Morris]

Dave,

Some braids are round while lines like Fireline (thermally fused), Tuff line and even Fins are flat in appearance and feel.

Pete

[Chris Young]

Dave ... check your line roller bearings, maybe seized or not functioning. Back in the bad old days we used to get mega line twist in mono before Daiwa re-invented the line roller.   

[Alex Jordan]

Also worth closing the bail arm by hand rather than snapping it shut - could also try feathering the lure before it hits the water - cuts down on a big bow forming in wind!

[Travis Heaps]

Dave ... check your line roller bearings, maybe seized or not functioning. Back in the bad old days we used to get mega line twist in mono before Daiwa re-invented the line roller.   

That's a good one.  Mine have just crapped out on my Stella 10k so it will happen, especially in the kayak as the reels often get fairly wet unless you have some modified rod holders that hold them up a bit.

[Warwick Joyce]

David, So once you have cut a few knots out and reduced the amount of line on the reel is the knotting less frequent?

Sounds like the most likely cause is an over filled spool with the cone shape, when you remove the spool there are a number of discs on the shaft and adding more or taking some off will alter the shape. You should have got a few spare discs when you bought your reel, unless its 2nd hand. I havent played around with it much but i think a flat lay or a slight cone with the larger end towards the base of the spool is better for casting.
Checking the line rollers is a must! Mine have only lasted a year and I wash my reel down and spray with inox every trip!

[Jay Burgess]

David, So once you have cut a few knots out and reduced the amount of line on the reel is the knotting less frequent?

Sounds like the most likely cause is an over filled spool with the cone shape, when you remove the spool there are a number of discs on the shaft and adding more or taking some off will alter the shape. You should have got a few spare discs when you bought your reel, unless its 2nd hand. I havent played around with it much but i think a flat lay or a slight cone with the larger end towards the base of the spool is better for casting.
Checking the line rollers is a must! Mine have only lasted a year and I wash my reel down and spray with inox every trip!

I had that exact problem... my 10000FA came from the factory coning towards the drag knob end of the spool and it caused me so much grief, especially just after a respooling. Got a new 18000HG and the line layed flat and I never once got a wind knot.

[David Clumpner]

I had that exact problem... my 10000FA came from the factory coning towards the drag knob end of the spool and it caused me so much grief, especially just after a respooling. Got a new 18000HG and the line layed flat and I never once got a wind knot.

This sounds pretty good!  Overfilling the spool may have been a problem.  I'll try to get to refilling the spool tomorrow or Thursday and get a picture up here to see if I am too full.
I did continue to have problems after cutting out winding knots in the line, but maybe at that point the line had already absorbed a lot of twist - beyond just the knot I was cutting out?

I am using a second-hand reel and don't have any additional washers to put into the spool, so I may just have to wing it.

Also, I checked my line roller last night and it appeared to be rolling fine.  I took it apart and oiled it up just in case, though the bearing itself looked good.  Can't say that for the inside of the reel, though, as after just a couple weeks of use (after a visit to Shimano Japan for $130USD worth of new, non-corroded interior parts) it's already rumbling and sputtering.  I once read that the Stella was a waterproof reel, but I can attest that it is not.

[Travis Heaps]

David - have attached a picture of how to adjust your winding shape if it is coning in one direction or the other.  Good news if it's coning towards the top as you just have to take a washer out however if it's coning towards the bottom you'll need to rustle up a spare from somewhere.

[PeterD]

Isn't it the other way around? If its coning to the top u want to add a washer and if its coning towards the bottom you want to take one out?