Line and leader break offs when using high drag setting

[Jussi Saarinen]

During my recent trip to Oman, we landed 7 and lost 13 GTs. Of the ones we lost, 9(!) were lost either due to lines (7) or leaders (2) breaking (no reefing). This happened on three different spools - two Jigging Master 25000 Monster Spools and one Jigging Master 16000 Monster Spool. We were using new line - hollow core Jerry Brown and Toro Tamer in the 130 lb and 100 lb class. The two leaders that broke were made of Varivas 200 lb and 170 lb. Several of the line/leader breaks occured when the fish took the lure close to the boat.

Since we were fishing with high quality gear, we started discussing what could be the reason for the multiple line and leader breaks.

We concluded that the culprit was loosely spooled line, which occurs when casting and retrieving your lure. When fishing with high drag settings, there is a risk that the line cuts into the underlying line that is wound on to the reel under less pressure than the underlying line, resulting in the spool getting stuck. This risk is greatest when getting hit close to the boat, meaning that you have the most loosely spooled line on the spool. And fishing with stick baits is worse than poppers, since they make less resistence when being retrieved (we used poppers ~75% of the time). We also believe that the effect is pronounced when fishing with hollow core, which is softer than solid line in the same line class.

The possible solutions to this problem that we thought of were:

i) use solid line, instead of hollow core
ii) wind in the last 20-30 meters of the cast (to put more pressure on the line)
iii) cast and wind in the lure every X cast
iv) pull out 80-100 meter of line and wind it back on under pressure at the end of each day

We tried ii) and iv) and noticed a marked reduction of wind knots when doing this. However, we tried it too late this particular fishing trip to be able to compare the results of the different methods properly. Also, the proposed solutions all have their respective draw-backs.

So, my questions are: i) have you had the same experience/problem, ii) do you think there is another explanation to our problems and iii) do you have any other possible solution to the problem?

On my next trip, I will bring a couple of spools with solid PE line to see if there is any difference.

[Travis Heaps]

Checked your guides and guide feet?  Make sure one of them doesnt have a knick or imperfection which is damaging your line and leader.

[Barry Kurten]

Hi Jussi,

Thanks for sharing your experience and findings.

Speaking from my own experiences and this is just my opinion so shoot me or agree with me, but this is my 2 cents worth 

I do not subscribe to the "high drag" way of fishing, instead I fish with a lighter drag setup and palm the spool to apply sufficient pressure as required. To date this has worked for me and I have suffered very few braid, leader or terminal tackle failures. A lighter drag setup would also be more forgiving for strikes closer to the boat. Obviously we all get reefed, and get cut off by the tail scutes from time to time, but that is part of the game.

If loosely packed line from a days fishing were the problem , I think a lot more anglers would experience this problem, so I am not entirely sure that is completely to blame, as long as your line is spooled under good tension, this should be more then sufficient. I can honestly say I have only experienced the problem of line bedding in on the spool twice and both times were due to my own laziness in spooling of the reel rather then because of excessive use  ! Lesson learnt 

Something to consider perhaps is how you prepare your spools when spooling them. Are you using any backing and what type of backing are you putting down on the spool ? Obviously then the braid needs to be put on under good tension which I am sure you do.

Another thing to consider if you don't do it already, is use a different method of striking the fish near the boat as to put less impact on the knots and line. As you know braided line has no stretch and therefore the percentage of your impact on knots and weak spots are greatly increased the closer the strike is to the boat. Instead of using a solid heavy setting strike as one does when the fish take further out, use shorter, less powerful quicker jab type strikes with the rod parallel to the water, rather then tip up.

Just a few idea's to think about
Super interesting thread and look forward to all the input to follow

[Trevor Skinner]

Jussi,


Barry and I have been to the same school.


Regards,


Trev

[Jussi Saarinen]

A few clarifications/additional information may be in place:

- The line was spooled onto all reels under +6 kg pressure using Frank's line spooler so no issues there.
- We were using pre-made wind-on leaders from Streamline, connected to the main line (HC) through a loop to loop connection, i.e. no knots.
- All line breaks happened between the reel and the l2l connection. Not one single break occured in the l2l.
- The two leaders that brooke were made of new Varivas 200 lb and 170 lb class. They may have had a knick in them but no visible damages (we check the leader repeatedly when fishing).

We are pretty sure that the reason for the breaks were a combination of the very tight underlying line and then relatively less tight line following the retrieve of the lure, using HC, high drag setting and getting hit close to the boat. This caused the line to dig into the more loosely spooled line causing the spool to lock for a moment (making the break redundant) and the line or leader breaking.

We observed this phenomenon in the evening, before the last fishing day when draggin out some 80-100 mtrs of line, while on land to retrieve it back under constant pressure. The spool then locked for a brief moment, however, we could then reduce the pressure and move the spindel/rotor arm before starting to pull out line again.

Another obervation we made is that the diameter of the JM MS 25000 is so wide that the spindel/rotor arm touches the side of the spool under pressure, but we didn't get the feeling that it was enough to casue the spool to lock down.

No issues with the guides on any of the three rods where this happened (checked all guides with a stocking).

I think reducing the initial drag setting could be a (partial) solution. However, I prefer not to touch the drag if possible once I have set the hook.

I am surprised that not more people have experienced the same problem.

[Nathan Tsao]

I run just a 2.5m leader and very heavy drags from boats, never had any mystery breakoffs like what you describe. If you are convinced its an issue of line packing on the spool, perhaps try wet packing your spools for greater compression. Most commercial fishermen will wet pack their large reels for the tightest pack possible. It could solve your problem?

[Jussi Saarinen]

Nathan, all spools were originally spooled at high (+6 kg) pressure. The problem is that the last ca. 80 mtrs of line on the spool will not be as tight as the underlying (first ca. 200 mtrs) once you have made your first cast.

[Brandon Khoo]

Jussi, with the break-offs on the braid, are you finding that the braid is stuck on the spool? That is, the braid is stuck to the point where it is really really hard getting it loose again? If so, that would appear to be a contributing factor.

I also think you need to be careful fishing really heavy pre-set drag with 100lb as it simply is more susceptible to shock loading.

I have seen in the past bad batches from time to time where lines are problematic.

I am not familiar with Frank's spooler. How does it work? Are you still winding the line onto the reel or is it a machine where the spool is removed from the reel and inserted on a machine?

[Mark Harris]

It's the Busted Fishing manual spooler Brandon. Excellent piece of kit.

A bad batch of braid remains a possibility I think but perhaps less likely as two brands of line were involved.

Also it raises the thorny old question of fishing super high drags again, something I am inclined to do less and less.

If Jussi has evidence that the line was impacting as he says, then that remains the most likely culprit for the braid explosions I think?

For the two times that Varivas leader failed, then either a tail swipe or an unnoticed  nick are probably the most likely reasons?

[Brandon Khoo]

Not necessarily - there were two brands but one was 100lb.

100lb braid won't handle really heavy drags as a strike setting and I've broken 130lb enough times to know it has a limit I can find. If you want to fish really heavy drags as a strike setting, i think you need to be thinking 150lb braid at least.

[Mark Harris]

Good point Brandon - could be at least two things going on I guess!

What is for sure is that our extreme brand of fishing is just brutal on equipment.

[Sean Costello]

Not necessarily - there were two brands but one was 100lb.

100lb braid won't handle really heavy drags as a strike setting and I've broken 130lb enough times to know it has a limit I can find. If you want to fish really heavy drags as a strike setting, i think you need to be thinking 150lb braid at least.

Hey Brandon are you refering to pe lines like varivas or spectra like JB, just curious due to the difference in their rating systems when you consider their diameter.

Sean

[Brandon Khoo]

I'm referring to 100lb or PE8 generally, Sean. It's one of the reasons why I have never been a convert to the ultra fine heavy braking strain braids.

Not necessarily - there were two brands but one was 100lb.

100lb braid won't handle really heavy drags as a strike setting and I've broken 130lb enough times to know it has a limit I can find. If you want to fish really heavy drags as a strike setting, i think you need to be thinking 150lb braid at least.

Hey Brandon are you refering to pe lines like varivas or spectra like JB, just curious due to the difference in their rating systems when you consider their diameter.

Sean

[Mayur Panday]

Jussi,


Barry and I have been to the same school.


Regards,


Trev

Barry went to school???!!!!!!!!!!?!!!!!!!

JK! Totally agree Barry! (Y)

[Brian Maccarone]

My 2 cents worth. When fishing heavy braid I set the hooks once on the initial strike and then as the fish is on its first run the drag is taken up. I know there is no pre set drag pressure then but with 100lb plus braking strain line things don't need to be that accurate. I use a rod and a half length of leader when popping and about 4m when jigging. I also find that the lay of line on the spool is better when done by hand using the reel rather than done on a machine. I always end up changing the spool spacers on new reels to get the line lay perfect also (Shimano).